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Saturday, February 4, 2017

The Gold Chronicles -- Jim Rickards

Jim Rickards & Alex Stanczyk --- The Gold Chronicles, January 17th, 2017

The Gold Chronicles: January 17th, 2017 Interview with Jim Rickards and Alex Stanczyk
Posted on January 19, 2017 by Physical Gold Fund
Jim Rickards and Alex Stanczyk, The Gold Chronicles January 17th, 2017

Topics Include:

*Power Triad Dynamics, USA, China, Russia
*Why China is concerned about a Trump Presidency
*Capital flows out of China continue at a robust pace
*China will burn through all of its liquid reserves in one year at the current pace
*Analysis of China’s three options
*Which conditions could place the USA and China in a state of war over the South China Sea
*Why gold moving into China is like going into a “Black Hole”
*Physical gold flows from west to east are exacerbating tightness in physical supply, and could lead to strong price moves when the west steps back into the market
*War on Cash and its impact on global systemic risk
*India demonitization has been a disaster
*End game plan for War on Cash is to force people into digital accounts
*Solution to avoiding an all digital system is to get out of it, gold or silver
*Breakdown of the SDR as sovereign money versus money for people
*IMF permission requirements from countries to print SDR’s

physical gold funds prevent the gold 0:05 chronicles with Jim Rickards and Alex 0:08 and insight and analysis about economic 0:11 geopolitics global finance and gold 0:20 hello I'm John Ward on behalf of 0:24 physical gold fund we're delighted to 0:26 welcome you to the latest webinar with 0:28 Jim Rickards and Alex panting in the 0:30 series recording the gold chronicles Jim 0:33 Rickards the New York Times bestselling 0:34 author and the chief global strategies 0:36 for west shore funds 0:38 he's the former general counsel of 0:40 long-term capital management consultant 0:42 to the US intelligence community and to 0:45 the department of defense he's also an 0:47 advisory board member of physical gold 0:49 fund 0:50 hello Jim and welcome to enjoy how are 0:52 you great thank you and we also have 0:54 with us 0:55 Alex tanzic managing director of 0:57 physical gold friend alex is experts and 0:59 officials gold into Street dealing with 1:01 the logistics chain from refinery to 1:04 secure transport bolting and his 1:07 lectures globally to invest their 1:08 institutional and government audiences 1:10 on the role of gold both in the 1:12 international monetary system and 1:15 investment portfolios 1:17 hello Alex I'd i agree to be here Alex 1:19 will be joining me in the conversation 1:21 with Germans will be looking out for 1:22 questions that come from you our 1:24 listeners so let me just say that your 1:26 questions today are more than welcome 1:29 you can post them at any point during 1:30 the interview you'll see a box on your 1:33 screen for typing in your question and 1:35 this time allows we'll do our best to 1:37 respond to you 1:38 so Jim let's start with a global 1:41 question you're just back from a trip to 1:44 China at a time when military tensions 1:47 are rising in the South Sea and you 1:50 return to find Washington and the media 1:53 consumed with the question of Russia so 1:57 stepping back from the political dramas 1:59 could use summarize your current 2:01 perspective on the triad of world powers 2:05 russia china and the united states have 2:08 you expect the balance of power between 2:10 these three two shift in the coming 2:13 years and what impact do you anticipate 2:16 on world markets and the monitresses all 2:20 those a huge question John and thank you 2:22 its girls or to a lot to talk about a 2:25 lot to chew on the key phrase used was 2:27 the balance of power and you correctly 2:29 identified the three most important 2:31 players China the US Russia 2:33 impact on Marcus's right there so many 2:35 unpacked a little bit for for listeners 2:38 the starting place is the idea that 2:40 there are only really three countries in 2:42 the world are primary importance the US 2:45 Russia and China now us in China's can 2:49 easy for most people well that's the 2:50 first and second largest economies in 2:52 the world i can actually debate what 2:54 order they come in I i use a nominal gdp 2:57 which would put the u.s. first but some 2:59 Alice use uh let's go purchasing power 3:02 parity gdp meaning adjusted for what you 3:05 can actually buy with the money which 3:06 would put China first that's a second 3:08 academic debate doesn't matter really 3:10 that's the first and second largest 3:11 economies in the world second largest 3:13 bilateral trading relationship in the 3:15 world so clearly there are paramount 3:18 Russia is a more interesting case it's 3:20 the 12th largest economy in the world so 3:22 time that the top two or three but it's 3:25 the largest land mass in the world is 3:27 nuclear power is the second-largest 3:29 standard energy producer in the world 3:31 and by all measures and it is in effect 3:34 an imperial power so by all measures are 3:36 include Russia and those in the big 3:38 three everyone else's are there a 3:40 secondary power tertiary power and Ally 3:42 approxi they they tagged along with one 3:44 of the big guys but they're three that 3:46 really count now I I suppose a lot of 3:49 our listeners when they were children 3:51 may be teenagers even-even should i 3:54 played the game a risk that the Parker 3:56 Brothers board game of risk and you know 3:58 how risk is play that's a geopolitical 4:00 strategy game usually start with five or 4:02 six players but within not very long 4:04 period of time you're down to three and 4:06 what always happens is that two of those 4:08 players either explicitly or implicitly 4:10 realize that they make an alliance and 4:13 systematically crush the third player 4:15 that player will be wiped from the board 4:17 and then those two have to turn on each 4:19 other to win the game at least in the 4:20 short run its advantageous to go two 4:22 against one 4:23 that's a typical balance of power play 4:26 well for the last say seven or eight 4:28 years certainly the most of the Obama 4:30 administration that two against one 4:32 dynamic has applied from Washington's 4:35 perspective is China and the US ganging 4:37 up on Russia Russia's sanction because 4:39 of the Crimea sanction because of 4:42 Ukraine sanction because of their 4:44 sexual practices Obama Morissette Putin 4:47 had to go he was on the wrong side of 4:49 history that you know the trumpets 4:51 reputation as a guy who sells people but 4:53 if you look at what Obama has said about 4:55 Putin is some of the most insulting 4:58 language I've ever heard between two 4:59 major head to state that you put in 5:01 return the favor in the last election by 5:03 you know that the hacks and the releases 5:06 and and all that stuff which I get no 5:08 need to go into I think people are 5:09 pretty familiar with that so it's sort 5:11 of been you know China and the US gang 5:14 up on Russia but there was a major 5:16 failure of u.s. foreign policy which was 5:18 sort of behind-the-scenes the dynamic 5:21 was actually Russia and China ganging up 5:23 on the United States and one of the keys 5:25 for u.s. foreign policy the last 50 or 5:27 60 years has been to make sure the 5:29 Russian China never form alliances 5:31 basically keep them separated I was it 5:34 was the key by China and Russia been 5:36 keeping their alliance to the Shanghai 5:38 Cooperation organisation that's military 5:40 and economic treaty the bricks 5:42 institutions you know that the bricks 5:44 allies to the IMF and the World Bank the 5:47 critical infrastructure bilateral trade 5:49 deals bilateral currency swaps arm 5:51 selves as a whole long list of this 5:54 year's Russia and China really deepen 5:56 their relationship and who's on the 5:58 losing end of that well obviously the 5:59 united states and the united states with 6:01 drop the Middle East Russia stepped in 6:03 on Syria elsewhere 6:05 China's expanding shell China Sea 6:07 questions expanding on this periphery 6:09 they've got each other's backs and 6:11 especially like the u.s. is that the odd 6:13 man out in the game of risk that is all 6:16 about to change and it will change at 6:19 noon on Friday when Donald Trump this 6:21 form and supported President of the 6:22 United States he's made it crystal clear 6:24 that the new game is going to be russia 6:27 and the united states are lying against 6:28 China suddenly China's the odd man out 6:30 and I wanted to see the presidency of 6:33 China's in Dallas this morning are 6:35 giving a speech about globalization 6:37 meanwhile behind the scenes they're all 6:39 kinds of linkages going on between 6:41 between Russia and the US this has huge 6:45 implications for markets for one thing 6:47 the US and Russia are the first and 6:49 second largest energy producers in the 6:51 world champ will also pivot away from 6:54 Iran towards saudi arabia saudi arabia's 6:57 third-largest energy provider 6:58 to the world you put us Russian sorry 7:00 Arabian a loose alliance on they 7:03 dominate the energy market say can you 7:05 cut you off they can supply they can 7:07 make the price whatever they want 7:08 who needs energy the most china china 7:11 has very little oil and natural gas it 7:13 does have cold but if you've been to 7:15 fishing lately you know it looks at 7:17 blackhat known because the air so bad 7:20 you can't breathe it so your diseases a 7:23 pulmonary diseases killing a pretty 7:26 comment so China can't rely on called 7:28 beyond a certain point or literally 7:30 choking himself to death with the with 7:32 the pollution the Equality so Russia the 7:35 US and Saudi Arabia acting jointly can 7:37 have got China completely at the mercy 7:39 so now let's bring it to the 7:41 confrontation between Donald Trump and 7:43 China because that's that's the 7:45 particular consequence of this 7:48 realignment I've described ciampino is 7:51 the art of the deal in a better way i 7:53 mention i just returned from my trip to 7:55 China and i do want to talk about that a 7:57 little bit fascinating trip but one of 7:59 the people I met with was a provincial 8:02 official government official but from 8:04 one of the provinces and their gnashing 8:06 and I got an email from that person last 8:08 night I just saying you know literally 8:11 page and what's going on the Trump you 8:13 know you're an American observer we 8:15 don't understand and I heard this over 8:18 and over again in China and these are 8:20 from elite race of these were a top 8:22 economist institutional investors 8:24 government officials that the the 8:26 everyday Chinese I did speak to the 8:29 people on the street is funny i was 8:30 walking out of London Shanghai and 8:32 people they say you're an American and 8:33 they'll just come up to you other 8:35 chinese and I can everyday people and 8:37 they want to practice your English 8:38 because they've been taking english 8:39 lessons they don't have the opportunity 8:41 to travel abroad so they were just kind 8:44 of talking to people just a little 8:45 practicing show is great for me excited 8:47 to have the opportunity to talk to you 8:49 know students and you know drivers and 8:52 that's kind of everyday people in 8:54 addition to require the same thing 8:55 everywhere to think i heard the one they 8:58 are sketchy at the top they don't get it 9:00 they're worried about what he's going to 9:01 do they don't understand them and then 9:04 the second thing we are doing is getting 9:06 their money out of China as fast as they 9:07 can 9:08 everybody from you know he said major 9:10 institutions to 9:11 everyday citizens are getting the money 9:14 out about a quick anecdote what I was 9:17 speaking and Shanghai to something that 9:21 was a big economic conference is a group 9:23 of 40 the top economist in China work 9:27 for banks and brokers or the the chief 9:28 China economist of the major banks and 9:30 brokers including Chinese officers are 9:33 US banks show that JP morgan city and 9:37 some others that was just core group 9:39 then they have a conference and they 9:40 invited about 400 institutional 9:43 investors and others so top economist 9:46 top institutions those my audience and i 9:48 was invited as one of the keynote 9:49 speakers why the standard again speakers 9:52 free of charge yourself like this and 9:54 they paid me but they didn't hire the 9:56 money from the trading company in Hong 9:58 Kong so it's very clear that all this 10:00 money trying to get out of china chinese 10:02 trying to start with capital controls 10:04 what everyone's doing all this work 10:05 around for using offshore affiliates and 10:08 invoicing tricks and underpricing export 10:11 so they can keep the money I'm sure 10:13 doing whatever they can to get the money 10:15 out china the chinese got a really 10:16 serious problem i do they're literally 10:19 bleeding reserves are down over trillion 10:21 dollars and it's going out of the rate 10:23 of that 800 billion dollars and not 10:25 gonna be broke by the end of the 2017 10:27 but yeah the only point of time story 10:30 was i I seen it firsthand and turns my 10:33 dealings with people there so the two 10:34 things i heard were they don't get 10:36 trapped in the sketch adapt and getting 10:37 the money out so there's a lot of stress 10:39 in China but coming back to see now so 10:42 my friend who is the government 10:43 officials asked me so i think is the 10:45 wall street journal this morning that 10:47 hundreds perhaps thousands of these 10:49 emails are going out basically the 10:52 Chinese government has activated their 10:54 network of whether it's government 10:56 officials comments by officials were 10:58 same page you know anybody in America 11:00 and there's anything about Trump asking 11:03 what's going on because as I say they 11:04 are they're just baffled at this point 11:06 that's not really surprising i think 11:08 Americans are pretty confused American 11:09 media can figure out rabbits up there 11:11 expect Chinese experts to understand 11:14 that but I reviewed the email that i 11:16 received as a a tiny little against 11:18 liver my first-hand intersection with a 11:21 much broader effort on the part of the 11:23 Chinese 22 11:25 you're out Trump well I think we can 11:27 figure out Trump I think the key to the 11:28 tropics you just have to say what you 11:30 see is what you get me I heard a lot of 11:31 people sell and he talks tough on trade 11:34 he talks tough on the currency and all 11:36 that but when he gets into office you 11:38 know 11:39 cooler heads will prevail hope time to 11:41 turn it down a little bit 11:43 ah that's wishful thinking and chocolate 11:46 chunk can be confusing me does 11:47 contradict himself and a sensational 11:50 exactly was coming from but there's an 11:52 amazing consistency and his closest 11:55 advisers you mean people like appear in 11:57 tomorrow 11:58 damn ego Robert light heiser these are 12:02 some of the key advisors are not on 12:04 trade and that and financial they're all 12:07 a hardshell opponents of absolutely free 12:11 trade because I mean really isn't any 12:13 free traders already discretion of who's 12:15 doing the riggings who went into losses 12:17 they understand that they're going to 12:19 take a very hard line on this here's the 12:20 crack-up that I see coming on the one 12:23 hand 12:24 china is losing reserves and Norma 12:26 straight and this is what i call the 12:28 other kind of the tree to one problem 12:31 which is they've got three trillion of 12:33 reserves left of the three trillion two 12:36 trillion are earmarked about a trillion 12:38 of that is illiquid so they've invested 12:40 in hedge funds and private equity funds 12:42 and gold mines and Zambia let's find 12:45 that it's worth something but they it's 12:46 not like they can't get the money least 12:49 they're easily good luck trying to get 12:50 the money back from henry kravis if you 12:52 invest in one of the private equity 12:53 funds another trillion has to be kept in 12:56 a precaution I reserve to bail out the 12:59 banking system because the banking 13:00 system is completely shot through with 13:02 that long since technically insolvent 13:04 and they're not bail tomorrow we're 13:05 gonna have to bail out sooner than later 13:07 we've got three training reserves left 13:09 one trillions of liquid 13:11 1,000,000,000,000 your mark about the 13:13 banking system that only leaves one 13:15 trillion dollars of liquid reserves to 13:17 prop up the currency which they have 13:19 been doing but it's costing them as I 13:21 say about 80 billion about to do that 13:24 that means you're going to be broken 13:25 here with if this continues within one 13:28 year China will have no liquid reserves 13:30 0 they'll be broke as far as their 13:33 international payment obligations or 13:35 contract 13:36 now clearly they're not going to allow 13:38 that to happen they can do the math as 13:40 easily as i can and so they're gonna 13:43 have to do something but what are they 13:44 gonna do there are only three choices 13:46 and this is what the great Robert 13:49 Mandela Nobel prize-winning economist in 13:51 the early sixties he call this the 13:53 impossible Trinity so what can you do 13:55 when you're in a situation where there 13:56 are only three things you can do you can 13:58 raise interest rates to kind of make 14:00 your country more attractive so maybe 14:02 somebody comes in you can slap on 14:04 capital controls so that it's not 14:06 allowed to go outside the roach motel 14:08 can come into can't go out we can 14:10 devalue the currency so you may still be 14:12 losing it but you lose its former 14:14 patient if you value enough again you're 14:17 actually be attractive and people want 14:18 to put money in because it the prices 14:21 just got cheaper measured and let's say 14:23 US dollars so let's kind of take those 14:26 one of the time can you raise interest 14:29 rates will note that that's off the 14:30 table because the companies are going 14:32 back there before I would that that's 14:34 our economy slowing their expertise 14:36 following if you raise interest rates 14:38 you can sink the economy may be thrown 14:40 into recession caused massive bankruptcy 14:42 state-owned enterprises accelerate this 14:44 economic slowdown that the job-creating 14:47 machine is going to slow damage throws 14:49 into question the legitimacy of the 14:51 commons partment the college party is 14:53 legitimate to begin with but they they 14:56 kind of gain some we support by creating 14:59 jobs will you slow down the jobs machine 15:01 then Chinese very volatile riot will 15:03 burn down banks though you burn down 15:05 real estate offices and all look a 15:08 tenement square 10 square is not really 15:10 about democracy turned into that 15:12 democracy and free speech it started as 15:14 an anti-reflection protest and then spun 15:17 out of control that's the history of 15:18 china she's not gonna raise interest 15:20 rates close the capital account whether 15:21 trying they're trying to do that but not 15:23 effectively i just gave example you know 15:26 I get paid to a trading company hong 15:28 kong will it be that that payment went 15:30 out you know they didn't put that part 15:31 of the capital account but on a more 15:33 serious note this is that they're not 15:36 really doing what they need to do to 15:38 close the Catholic kneecap is haven't 15:41 gone pretty far down the road to an open 15:42 economy is their tens of billions if not 15:45 more legitimate payments that have to be 15:47 made every day for suppliers and 15:50 vendors and you know fund investments 15:52 and other transactions so you can shut 15:55 down the whole thing or you can and so 15:57 if you just want to shut down part that 15:59 doesn't really work because people were 16:00 all people over creative figure out the 16:02 workaround and the IMF doesn't like it 16:04 member october first 2016 just a few 16:07 months ago the IMF included the Chinese 16:10 you want in the SDR saying it's a global 16:13 reserve currency and ice as we said on 16:15 prior calls it's not really a global 16:17 reserve currency but they're pretending 16:19 it is and they got the IMF you know Good 16:21 Housekeeping Seal of Approval wellpoint 16:24 the IMF conditions you have to have an 16:25 open capital account so they're not 16:27 going to close the capital can't really 16:28 effectively does it because of flanger 16:31 the IMF and boots that deal so i just 16:33 showed there trying but not very 16:35 effectively and that's not really gonna 16:37 get them where they need to be so if 16:39 interest rates and cakes are off the 16:41 table and they can't close the capital 16:42 account effectively what's left 16:44 evaluation 16:45 well as Trump screaming about Chuck 16:47 scary about evaluation he says the 16:49 Chinese are keeping the 122 cheap 16:52 whether they might be about to do an 16:54 actual evaluation take it really really 16:56 down 16:57 so then what is the rest of trumps 16:59 wishlist 17:00 well he wants help on North Korea 17:02 because it has click create nuclear 17:04 program Americans are getting closer to 17:06 miniaturizing their nuclear devices and 17:09 do a small you gonna get small to Kazan 17:12 warhead getting closer to be able to do 17:14 that and there are perfecting their ICBM 17:17 intercontinental ballistic missile 17:18 technology get there not there but 17:20 they're trying really hard and they're 17:22 making some progress and we're getting 17:23 closer to the point where they can make 17:25 Seattle now the u.s. is nothing like 17:27 that happened which means you might have 17:29 to be a bomb North Korea to shut down 17:31 the program but who has more influence 17:33 over north korea and china dancers 17:36 nobody said Trump saying China help us 17:38 out with North Korea China can't do it 17:40 the reason is if China gets aggressive 17:42 with North Korea North Korea will open 17:44 the border and let a million starving 17:46 North Korean refugees from pleasanton 17:48 Manchuria which is also destabilizing to 17:51 the communist party so that they can 17:53 help their what else is troubling 17:55 Trump's try to use Taiwan and the 17:58 one-china policy as a trump card kind of 18:01 no pun intended but 18:03 playing with fire they are you talking 18:05 about revisiting the one-china policy 18:06 whether think the first thing you learn 18:08 in China is Taiwan is non-negotiable is 18:11 non-negotiable they consider taiwan as 18:14 much a part of China as we consider 18:16 California part of the United States you 18:19 know California's may have different 18:20 political views but no one thinks you're 18:22 not part of the United States so calling 18:24 for taiwan independence would be like 18:26 China saying we think California should 18:28 be independent of the United States the 18:30 second happened in others taiwan and so 18:32 that's a non-starter in the third area 18:34 is South China Sea there Rex Tillerson 18:37 the designated secretary of state as 18:39 confirmation hearing are talking about 18:41 these chinese artificial islands that 18:44 got going on said they should be denied 18:45 access to those Islands well that's fine 18:48 i don't necessarily disagree with the 18:49 time to share that was five years ago 18:51 not now they build up those islands and 18:53 they're there to prevent landing strips 18:55 and military bases and John the Chinese 18:58 worships down the US has the power to 19:00 stop that but you're talking about a 19:01 blockade of some sort of which is not to 19:03 work and the Chinese said that they 19:05 should don't go there because well that 19:07 will put us in a state of work so do you 19:09 want to shooting war with China that's 19:11 kinda scary but the point is that's 19:14 where that's heading and the Chinese 19:17 can't back off losing patience by the 19:18 way the South China Sea is also 19:19 existential the reason we're taking it 19:21 over 19:22 it's not for oil there is some oil their 19:24 best for protein they want the fish to 19:26 feed the people tell the largest fishing 19:28 areas in the world maybe they don't want 19:29 the Filipinos in that the other means 19:31 and others you know depleting the 19:32 protein to trump is looking for help on 19:35 North Korea Taiwan South China Sea 19:38 currency manipulation and China can't 19:42 help with any of them because they're 19:44 just stuck 19:45 I mean there's they've got other other 19:47 issues namely the long survival but 19:49 Trump's not backing off so maybe I could 19:52 explain the charges to explain to our 19:54 listeners but I don't know that it would 19:56 change anybody's mind so you're looking 19:58 at a major major confrontation between 20:00 China and the United States and how is 20:01 that going to play out well it's 20:03 completely unconscious worse trade Wars 20:06 maybe shooting more the way things are 20:07 going out of North Korea or with China 20:10 and was I do for gold while all these 20:12 things all these geopolitical vectors 20:14 are extremely good for both they could 20:16 an economic growth you could see the 20:18 dollar get a lot stronger which is a 20:21 headwind for gold 20:22 remember there are two things that 20:23 charcoal one is a weaker dollar the 20:26 other one is geopolitical issues that 20:29 causes fights quality and by the truck 20:31 came out yesterday our show friday 20:33 rather an interview the lawsuit 20:34 challenging the dollars too strong 20:36 Anthony escape moochies his main 20:38 economic one of those manics look 20:40 spending dollars for the same thing the 20:42 dollars two strikes you got Trump and 20:44 why this major spokesman same dollars 20:45 too strong 20:46 what does that mean they want a weaker 20:48 dollar I was weak economy for gold means 20:50 higher dollar gold pressures so even 20:53 though China may be valuing and that's 20:56 going to close the confrontation with 20:57 Trump Trump telling Europe and Japan and 21:02 China even if China's respond that we 21:05 need a weaker dollar she had two major 21:07 challenge for goals a weaker dollar 21:09 coming to political risk escalating all 21:13 in the larger context of this alliance 21:15 between Russia and the United States 21:17 against China so this is going to get 21:19 very ugly very fast i'm not i said i was 21:22 just in China and they talk to people 21:24 there and I was like when I came back 21:25 from traveling to Washington and i met 21:28 with a bunch of the top national 21:29 security people as a private dinner of 21:32 in georgetown on Thursday night 21:34 this is escalating its spinning out of 21:36 control I'll give it to quick i just 21:38 John because I mean I could talk 21:39 technicals all day but a lot of times 21:42 that the human reaction is the most 21:43 valuable to me it's where I learned 21:44 things i had a well I gave my 21:47 presentation we have a translator 21:49 speaking English most of the audience is 21:51 listening and chinese one city bank 21:54 economist from England said I'm when we 21:56 sat down and shook my hand is a great 21:58 presentation gym but you are Chinese 21:59 translators nightmare because I speak 22:01 too fast which is probably true but 22:03 seven is what they were actually hearing 22:05 but my left slide about 20 slides and my 22:08 second-to-last so i think was my model 22:10 portfolio and I have temperature and 22:12 gold as that's my standard 22:14 recommendation when I put that slide up 22:16 about 50 people in the room jumped out 22:18 of the seats and look at their iphones 22:20 and took pictures of the slide they 22:22 didn't have a handout a copy but they 22:24 were like on the picture that doesn't 22:26 want to kind of pic write it down and 22:27 see what's going on I a lot of 22:30 positive things about gold i also met 22:32 privately kind of one-on-one before this 22:35 at the breakfast table at the met with 22:37 three of the most powerful chinese gold 22:41 dealers 22:42 I can't mention there's specific names 22:44 of the bank's but two people from one of 22:47 the largest banks in china one person 22:49 from one of the other largest banks in 22:50 China but they were the head of precious 22:53 metals for those back so these are the 22:54 people who move the gold in in China and 22:57 I a lot of fascinating things from that 22:59 first of all personally told me you 23:00 don't believe what you hear about 23:01 Chinese purchases falling down they said 23:03 it is this is a busy as ever the change 23:06 of buying gold especially they can see 23:08 what you read the pressure is not true 23:10 we're bringing ancestors we can't I one 23:13 thing that sounds fascinating because i 23:15 had from her phone number sources that 23:18 you know the People's Liberation Army 23:20 moves the golden armor car caravan such 23:23 as that from a top-security mystics 23:25 person other people said the same thing 23:28 and and alex and i was going to jump in 23:31 here in a minute but outside we've been 23:32 to Switzerland which is where they go 23:34 where they're sending the go to China so 23:36 we have pretty good information there 23:37 but I just been in China on the 23:40 receiving end and talk to the the top 23:42 people there and I said well why should 23:45 that the army and the paramilitaries 23:47 always move the gold you know I can't 23:49 remove yourself and they said we're not 23:50 allowed to have guns 23:52 I really it's not it's obvious thing 23:54 when they say it really struck me as I 23:55 guess you're right you're not allowed to 23:57 have guns but you know what good is it 23:58 back on the country if you can have 24:00 armed guards so the reason the one 24:02 reason these the military moving around 24:04 is because the banks can have their own 24:07 armored car services because they're not 24:09 have armed guards can have got so the 24:12 way it works is that plain believe 24:14 Switzerland leaves or you could be any 24:17 cargo carrier Chinese Carolina being a 24:19 social I whatever with a Brinks 24:22 consignment on board from you know our 24:24 goal or tab for the big sister fires 24:27 that plane lands in Shanghai ship over 24:31 the gold comes up branches down with 24:32 that there's no drinks in China because 24:35 of what I just mentioned they can't 24:37 carry cancer so it goes into either 24:40 paramilitary or military convoy and then 24:42 it goes to the vault 24:43 so that that was interesting the other 24:45 thing I learned was that so I said okay 24:48 I have a pretty good handle on chinese 24:49 gold purchases I I enough geological 24:52 surveys with the mining output is I 24:54 think I know how much gold is going to 24:56 china so what I don't know is of 24:59 shanghai gold exchange sales which look 25:02 at the pretty transparent how much of 25:05 that is private versus how much is the 25:07 government and I was sort of guessing 25:08 activity 5730 whatever what they told me 25:12 these guys are the deals they said it's 25:13 a hundred percent private meaning he 25:15 said the government operates two 25:17 completely separate channels the 25:19 government does not operate through the 25:21 shower goals change when they want gold 25:23 they ordered themselves they bring it 25:26 into their agents they take it 25:27 themselves and they bought it that none 25:30 of what's going on the shower gonna 25:32 change is going to people's back a child 25:33 they are the state administration final 25:35 chance they've got their own child or 25:37 I'd kind of me right between the eyes 25:38 with man you guys got more gold than I 25:41 realized because if it I know China's 25:43 getting gold I've heard that from other 25:45 sources but if that's not coming from 25:48 the shower Gold Exchange that's just 25:49 coming straight in to government 25:52 channels and all the shanghai gold 25:53 exchanges private consumption that china 25:56 is is basically hoovering up all ago 25:58 they can get their hands on which is 25:59 completely consistent with what we heard 26:02 Switzerland what I heard from other 26:03 sources and in shanghai i just kind of 26:06 shake my hand I mean why institutions 26:07 think that they don't need physical gold 26:09 they should be getting it now while they 26:11 still can 26:12 is surprising to me because that the 26:15 shirt is just going to get worse and 26:16 worse 26:17 I don't care what become actually 26:18 feeling I carry tsr doing 26:20 that's the paper gold market and I 26:23 understand sets the price i mean the 26:25 price is the price we getting closer and 26:27 closer to the point where the physical 26:29 gold shortages are going to cause a 26:31 crack-up it can be such prepares to 26:33 deliver around the system and once that 26:35 gets out which it will I would look for 26:37 a super spike in the price of gold so 26:39 fascinating trip not a lot of great 26:41 people on the way had great 26:43 conversations but there is this normal 26:45 shanks about Trump I said there's good 26:47 reason for that because she means what 26:49 he says I'm looking a trade war account 26:52 you were looking at your program 26:54 stability just not in kind of back 26:57 off the Chinese are confused the buying 26:59 gold hand over fist and chumps place the 27:02 other day that the dollar strong says 27:04 one thing but that's right that's why 27:06 gold one reason girls growing up but 27:08 really rally very strongly today and i 27:10 was i was writing a column this morning 27:12 it's like you know gold at the 1206 and 27:14 look at my screen it was 1216 lot of ten 27:17 dollars and house in the time is right 27:18 in the article shola that's what's going 27:20 on you know out in the real world so 27:22 I'll stop there John and then we have no 27:24 alex is a commentary and then we want to 27:26 questions from listeners but it was a 27:28 fascinating trip to use your political 27:31 place going on 27:32 none of the news now forecasting is one 27:35 of the news is good i think i think i 27:37 got the forecast a triple unfortunately 27:39 it's not a very pleasant scenarios are 27:41 going to start to play out that you know 27:42 friday when President Trump this morning 27:44 and I would just say fashion shape up 1 27:47 i'm going to continue this conversation 27:49 a little bit in regards to the gold 27:51 market and something that you said just 27:54 a few minutes ago gym that I think is 27:55 really interesting is that these 27:57 shortages are going to continue and 27:58 probably continue to get worse and I 28:01 think you're you're right on the mark in 28:04 regards to that I think a lot of the 28:07 market as well aware of how gold has 28:10 been moving from the west to the east 28:11 largely in the china-india demand from 28:15 China going back over the last probably 28:18 five years has been continually getting 28:21 stronger and something that a lot of 28:23 people may or may not know if people are 28:25 are familiar with sort of the gold story 28:27 to follow the gold markets they might 28:29 already know this but there are a lot of 28:31 people who are taking a look at gold 28:32 who've never really considered it before 28:34 and something that's important to point 28:36 out is that goal that goes into China is 28:39 like going into a black hole and what I 28:42 mean by that is that once the gold goes 28:45 into China I don't expect that we'll be 28:47 seeing it anytime soon and maybe never 28:50 because China does not sell its gold 28:53 into the market the only goal that ever 28:54 comes how to china i saw an article the 28:57 other day that someone smuggled out but 28:59 China doesn't sell its gold on the world 29:01 market itself it internally in any gold 29:04 that is sold 29:05 from the private sector according to the 29:07 law in China has to be sold to the 29:09 people's bank of china which is the 29:10 china central bank and I also concur 29:13 with what you were saying in regards to 29:15 when chinese official buying is going on 29:17 this is the Chinese central bank they 29:19 don't report those figures and you know 29:21 I suspected that for for many years I 29:23 mentioned is in an interview that I did 29:25 a couple of years ago that I don't think 29:27 we really had any kind of official way 29:29 to measure the central bank's demand the 29:32 important part of the the whole black 29:33 hole issue is that over the years as the 29:37 West has been selling off and you can 29:38 measure this just looking at gold was 29:40 like if you pay attention to gold 29:41 flowing from countries like the United 29:43 States countries like the UK were the 29:46 majority of the golden shells for the 29:47 largest Western etf gold funds in the 29:50 world and just watch where it goes as 29:53 that gold is drawn down when those big 29:55 ETS sell off the gold leaves the United 29:58 Kingdom it goes through Switzerland gets 30:00 really refined into one kilo for we call 30:05 it 49 fine meeting 999.9 parts per 30:08 thousand pure which is the Chinese 30:10 requirement and that those bars get 30:13 shipped over to China there's been a lot 30:15 of speculation that at some point those 30:17 boards would come back on the market we 30:18 see fig four hundred ounce bars 30:21 reintroduced into gld inventory things 30:23 like that but that hasn't happened so 30:25 that's pretty good proof that was really 30:28 happening when the West cells off its 30:30 gold is that it's moving through 30:31 Switzerland into China there's been a 30:34 really interesting dynamic that's 30:35 occurred since the end of q4 2016 to 30:40 today and that dynamic is yesterday GOP 30:44 had its first gold influence an 30:46 inventory since november second and for 30:49 those who are not familiar with it 30:51 gld is a Western gold etf it's sort of 30:53 like the flagship gold etf it's run by 30:57 bullying banks so bullion banks are some 30:59 of the largest banks in the world that 31:00 includes banks like the world of five 31:02 market-making members of our boolean 31:05 banks or hsbc goldman sachs Citibank JP 31:08 Morgan ups so sort of the the the 31:11 regular suspects there 31:13 but the reason this is so interesting is 31:16 that one of my colleagues just recently 31:18 mentioned to me that that the deal the 31:19 inventory is way down which is true if 31:22 you measure it from the peak of 2016 31:26 but the truth is is that as the gold 31:29 price USD gold price i'm talking about 31:31 pastor 11-year so the previous two times 31:34 it did this the inventory was a hundred 31:36 times less than when it did the time 31:39 ok so send another way what that means 31:42 is that gob had a hundred ton buffer 31:44 that authorized participants didn't sell 31:48 or didn't release into the market which 31:50 tells me that bullying banks were 31:52 considering gold oversold and that it 31:54 was going to reverse which is which is 31:56 exactly what it did from the last time 31:58 we had this webinar last month and we're 32:01 talking about this 32:02 so what accounts then for the rise of 32:05 the use the gold price back to 1250 LD 32:08 inventory wasn't moving and if the West 32:10 wasn't buying what it means is that the 32:13 flak was picked up by other major 32:16 non-western demand answers so we're 32:18 talking China India before the West 32:20 started by again and that's really just 32:23 been in the last couple of days so why 32:27 this is important is that govt is a 32:29 pretty good proxy for measuring Western 32:32 demand metal measuring Western buying 32:35 and in particular it measures hedge 32:38 funds and speculators so when you have a 32:40 lot of speculative buying or hedge funds 32:43 are entering the market looking for a 32:45 price gains on the price of gold moving 32:48 they typically use gld as the vehicle to 32:50 do that in 2016 32:53 there was a big one up in the gold price 32:55 obviously and that was driven mostly by 32:58 Western speculators so that one up to a 33:01 peak obviously the hedge funds all 33:04 exited towards the end of 2016 and that 33:07 brought the gold price back down to 33:08 around 11 29 but here's the interesting 33:11 part strong hands took the gold price 33:14 back up to about 1,200 with pretty much 33:16 no help from head 33:18 and what that means to me is that 33:20 Western speculators weren't involved 33:22 bringing this price from 1129 back up to 33:24 1,200 yes there is a market vector where 33:27 the USD is a pretty strong lever on the 33:30 gold price and the way you can measure 33:32 that is if you watch the USB price when 33:35 the USD prices are the US dollar is 33:37 strengthening and all other currencies 33:39 are weakening against it and vice versa 33:41 that's a pretty strong vector the 33:43 indication here is that this happened 33:46 without a lot of help from Western 33:47 speculators and what that means is as 33:50 that inventory was running down and 33:52 moving over into China into the black 33:54 hole so to speak all that gold that way 33:57 over there is not going to be available 33:58 the next time the hedge funds etc are 34:01 jumping back into the market and I 34:03 suspect most of that when mostly China 34:05 because India was off by some 400 tons 34:07 from normal demand 2016 what it means to 34:11 us is that when Western speculators do 34:14 step back into this market matte gold is 34:16 not available if you if the beginning of 34:19 2016 is any indication of tightness in 34:21 the market I think that the next time 34:23 the hedge funds and speculators from the 34:25 West step back into this market it could 34:27 be pretty energetic Frank stile expresar 34:30 that's amazing analysis of the ghost 34:32 story Jim at the end of our last podcast 34:34 we began a discussion on the war on cash 34:37 and I know your time today I am totally 34:40 understands a little bit limited but you 34:43 can give us a bit of an update on this 34:45 phenomenon and perhaps place it in a 34:47 wider context of global systemic well in 34:51 my section in my most recent book the 34:55 road to ruin which came out of every 15 34:57 I had a large section on the war in cash 35:00 and this has been going on for some time 35:01 and I expected it to get worse 35:04 I did not expect it gets so bad so 35:06 quickly about literally the week 35:08 my book came out I was when Prime 35:10 Minister Modi of India announced the 35:13 basically the two largest circulation 35:16 bills in India the thousand we know the 35:18 bartender would be no he just woke up 35:20 one morning should be illegal but no 35:21 longer legal tender and they said you if 35:25 you have them and you want your value 35:27 come on down to the bank and the men 35:29 will put money in your account 35:31 and fuel economy we have a new 2000 35:33 looking out 35:34 sounds good it was a complete complete 35:36 fiasco about eighty percent or more of 35:40 the indian economy was running with 35:41 paper country their knowledge of 1.1 35:44 billion people and there over 80% cash 35:48 that's just the way it a whirl Darien 35:51 society that works out there is a middle 35:54 class of 200 to 300 million people on 35:56 yeah they've got their other cars in the 35:58 credit cards of the iphones and the 36:00 paypal all that other good stuff that's 36:02 fine for them but what about the 36:03 position that the other billion people 36:06 were almost killing people left out in 36:08 the cold while they were long lines of 36:10 banks economy shut down there were riots 36:13 there were the supermarket shelves for 36:15 stripped they've been screwed up worse 36:17 than that which is the new 2000 rupee 36:19 note they printed them it was the wrong 36:21 size it didn't fit in the ATM machine so 36:23 that they had to shut down all the ATM 36:26 machines in india and rip the guts out 36:28 the physical machinery not the 36:30 programming and changing so would 36:32 dispense these new 2000 would be no she 36:34 was a complete and other disaster are 36:38 right after that Venezuela system 100 36:41 Bolivar note is worthless that was 36:43 already kind of worthless anyway it was 36:45 probably was worth the maybe six cents 36:47 or something like that but whatever the 36:49 value wasn't worth very much but that 36:51 those those nights had to be incident 36:53 and clearly say this is designed to get 36:56 rid of the black market same but 36:58 calculators and terrorists always have 37:00 this list of excuses but the truth is it 37:02 changes everyday people 37:04 it's designed to force them into digital 37:06 payment systems are Y so that they can 37:08 be slaughtered with negative interest 37:10 rates confiscation freezes etc and this 37:14 is not confined to just a few countries 37:17 it already happened in various ways in 37:19 Cyprus 2013 a grease in 2015 37:24 we just seen it in that India and as 37:27 well and recent weeks 37:28 Australia has started parliamentary 37:31 debate about getting richer than 100 at 37:33 australian dollar note Europe last year 37:36 coverage of the 500 euro note cause in 37:39 the United States to get rid of the 37:41 hundred-dollar bill this is not this is 37:43 not going away this this pressure is 37:45 going to come 37:45 can you expect to see more of it and 37:48 Gasol is forcing people to basically put 37:50 their savings into some digital form now 37:52 to be a bank account maybe you want 37:55 money market fund by the way I 37:56 considered raise money market fund to be 37:58 one of the great mysteries of all times 38:00 because it's not money people think its 38:02 money but it's actually a mutual fund a 38:04 particular kind 38:06 we have to call your broker and and have 38:08 to show your shares and send the wire 38:11 the mind your bank account well sounds 38:13 easy and that's what people do on a 38:15 day-to-day basis but what happens if the 38:17 brokers clothes what happened to the 38:18 exchanges close what happens if the bank 38:20 is closed 38:21 what happens if the final expense 38:22 reductions and there's just so many ways 38:24 that long as I'm close to my but they 38:26 called money market funds because it 38:28 makes people feel good i guess you 38:29 you're the cash component of portfolios 38:31 definite risk it's being forced into 38:34 digital form so that it can be frozen or 38:37 confiscated various ways and there 38:39 really is no solution to accept to get 38:42 out of the digital system 38:44 how can you get out of the digital 38:46 systems still have some for money well 38:48 my answer would be gold or silver gold 38:50 is excellent for larger stores well 38:53 silver is excellent for a kind of you 38:56 know in effect walking-around money or 38:58 transactional money if you run a power 39:00 grid knowledge or social investor or 39:02 natural disaster you know people tell me 39:05 all the time you know we can't go alone 39:07 or do you want to eat it you know better 39:09 I'd like to buy food I've ever give me 39:10 paper money and keep the gold but an 39:12 extremist when paper much down around 39:15 its survival you can't gather were 39:17 you're locked into a digital system 39:18 which is frozen i guarantee that people 39:22 will sell you food whatever you need for 39:25 gold or silver so-and-so responsible for 39:28 that purpose 39:29 you should get my recommendations always 39:30 been ten percent of your portfolio not 39:32 all and not fifty percent if things get 39:35 to the levels which I expect and I 39:38 totally do 39:40 go ten thousand dollars an ounce silver 39:42 dollars an ounce or more and this other 39:45 extinction areas playing out that you 39:47 know attempts on your portfolio will in 39:49 effect ensure the rest of your portfolio 39:52 uh you do more for I guess individual 39:54 choice but I'm uncomfortable with the 39:56 temperature recommendation that way if I 39:59 you can still the other way which is 40:01 always possible a deflationary vector 40:04 cannot be ruled out so you could go low 40:06 and you won't be hurt you badly if you 40:08 have ten percent but then there are the 40:11 caution that a lower dollar price for 40:13 gold doesn't mean a lower no value for 40:17 gold and silver and gold could be going 40:19 up in a highly deflationary world you 40:21 might find the gold is going down from 40:23 you know 1202 900 but everything else is 40:26 going down even more to go with actually 40:29 preserve value better than stocks and 40:31 bonds and some other trade so you don't 40:33 get too hung up on the nominal price 40:35 focus on the real price right now the 40:38 real prices is round very strongly 40:40 suspect that to continue but even if it 40:42 goes the other way a lower nominal price 40:45 would be probably indicative of 40:47 deflation which could mean a higher real 40:48 pressure so you went either way you know 40:52 people showed me to you know understand 40:55 Golden Globes barbarous relic you put 40:57 any of your portfolio into gold i just 40:59 say how could you not happy sleep at 41:02 night not having challenger wealth in a 41:04 non digital form where can't be left out 41:07 by the letter Putin or frozen by some 41:09 future administration so the other one 41:11 cache is alive and well it's getting 41:13 worse coming to a country near you 41:15 expect us will join in singing them 41:17 later and the only alternative to get 41:21 out of the digital payment system and 41:22 that means some tangible asset you 41:25 cannot land and fine art natural 41:27 resources are all a good portfolio 41:29 allocation for non-digital contractual 41:32 asset private equity funds or venture 41:34 capital funds shutter but you definitely 41:36 want some gold and silver 41:37 well thank you and now I like so we do 41:40 have collection months for his next 41:41 appointment at ten minutes before the 41:43 hour today but let's take at least one 41:45 of the questions from atlas 41:47 ok sure we've got about five minutes 41:49 left right now one question that's 41:51 coming is from andrew c and he says i 41:54 love the work in the podcast i think 41:57 this question is in regards to whether 41:59 the IMF SDR is effectively money for 42:04 people or if it's more money for 42:08 sovereignty 42:09 his question directly is if the IMF 42:12 becomes the entity that fails allen 42:14 central banks by printing at the arse is 42:16 this effectively the IMF printing US 42:19 dollars JPY british pound R&B and euro 42:23 directly and if so do does the IMF need 42:26 the permission from country's central 42:27 bank to do this great question of my 42:30 breaking a couple parts first role when 42:31 the IMF issues SG ours they needed more 42:34 from their executive board but 42:36 presumably they would all be on board 42:38 they are not going to do this on a good 42:40 normal sunny day they're going to do it 42:42 the next time there's a little crazy 42:43 crisis for the kind we start 2008 which 42:45 i do expect simulators in that crisis 42:48 the next one will be bigger than the 42:50 central bank's the central banks won't 42:52 be able to balance out the way they did 42:53 the last time someone is concerned the 42:54 IMF for the bailout that will 42:56 accommodate by massive multi-trillion 43:00 SDR a printing should they don't need 43:03 central bank approval to do that and we 43:05 know that will be some phone calls 43:06 behind the scenes and they're going to 43:07 talk to wear with this Janet Yellen my 43:10 jog your color size whoever but the 43:13 during their separate institution they 43:15 can act on their own and they will now 43:17 when they do this 43:18 are they printing out bundles of yin and 43:20 dollars and sterling now they're 43:23 printing up sdrs now people think that 43:26 there's star0 back by those other 43:28 countries they're not there isn't a 43:31 reference so-called basket I don't think 43:33 that's the right word by the way but 43:34 people call the basket there's a5 43:36 currency basket dollars and euros 43:40 sterling and challenge you want as the 43:43 last October thats related to the 43:45 estimate that basket only exists for the 43:47 purpose of calculating across rate so if 43:50 you say we're watching this deal worth 43:52 of my dollars that we haven't yet as it 43:54 were 43:55 well there's a way to do that 43:56 calculation and and the those five 43:58 countries are in the calculation that's 43:59 really a math problem i mean i get a 44:01 again email from a nap every day with 44:03 that day CSTR fixing the right now it's 44:06 a it's about our 5000 that less but but 44:09 that's why there's consciously but we 44:11 print strg is printing as yours now 44:13 second part of the question do they go 44:15 to us now people don't get them 44:17 countries get them basically hundreds 44:19 I'm everything i'm asking i'll get them 44:21 in accordance with their shares in the 44:22 IMF 44:23 take stock in the company you know the 44:24 u.s. is about sixteen percent of the 44:28 votes at the IMF so if they printed 10 44:30 trillion STRs the US would get 1.6 44:33 trillion STRs and and so on everyone 44:36 will get their share based on their vote 44:38 but then canary gets interesting because 44:41 a lot of countries will get str and 44:44 they'll say well thanks but I don't need 44:47 an excuse i need euros or any dollars or 44:49 regular I've got you know a trade 44:52 deficits or I've got external financial 44:54 obligations that can finance or by 44:57 corporations can't lower the death of 44:59 going back up i need to bail them out 45:00 cetera and there is a trading desk 45:02 inside the IMF and if you have sdsu 45:04 don't want and you need these other 45:06 countries you can swap them you can sell 45:09 st ours for the other currencies you can 45:12 get the other currencies to pay your 45:14 bills but they're coming from existing 45:17 supplies if they're not newly printed 45:20 dollars these dollars that are there 45:22 from the States or elsewhere so that's 45:25 how countries get liquid countries but 45:27 sad behind this printing dollars and 45:29 euros it said they're pretty str and 45:31 people get them can affect sell them 45:34 through training this man enough to get 45:36 dollars now who's to buy it right so if 45:38 I'm hungry or a handsome Bob way or 45:41 anybody and i want to sell us do is 45:44 because I need something else who's 45:46 buying those sdrs well one buyers China 45:49 and China is buying the STRs because 45:53 they're trying to get out of dollars 45:54 there's a big you know kind of game of 45:57 musical chairs going on here behind the 45:58 scenes and these values can fluctuate 46:00 but one thing for sure I mean are also 46:03 you know I don't need to get too down at 46:05 least in terms of the testicle lecture 46:07 on how the ester is actually what one 46:08 thing is certain this will be 46:10 inflationary I don't care I don't care 46:12 if you call it you know str banana peels 46:14 if if you print entering something and 46:17 give it to all these countries said in a 46:19 way that they can spend it then that's 46:21 going to be inflationary that's 46:23 extremely bullish for gold on it super 46:26 bush for gold so I see two engine areas 46:29 one involves actually going to a gold 46:31 standard which I'm not predicting but if 46:34 they did and that would mean goalie 46:36 center 46:36 dollars announces it has to be 10,000 46:39 knowledge now it's gonna see any lower 46:41 prices deflationary which is the last 46:43 thing you want this this map behind that 46:45 or if they don't go go standard they're 46:47 gonna have to go to st ours which is 46:49 just a pleasure which means the dollar 46:50 personal go up so focus up on the way in 46:53 the scenario there are some efforts have 46:55 a private str market with the IMF calls 46:58 em strm hyphen str and stands for market 47:01 that mark is taking off that they have a 47:03 10-year plan to do that but in my view 47:06 they're not going to get that far this 47:08 crisis will come before they finish 47:10 their can your plan and then they're 47:12 gonna have to go to SG ours on the 47:14 emergency basis rather than a gradual 47:16 basis and then that's just going to be 47:18 the response to the next financial 47:20 panics 47:21 well I think we have to election go now 47:24 for everyone and we'd love to hear more 47:25 of your questions but today you 47:28 understand that enjoyment in huge demand 47:30 from many sources Spurs insights and 47:33 we're very privileged to have known each 47:35 month for this long and so thank you Jim 47:38 Rickards and thank you alex also for 47:41 your very insightful analysis today it's 47:44 always a pleasure and an education 47:46 sharing this time with the both of you 47:49 and most of all thank you to our 47:51 listeners for spending time with us 47:52 today let me encourage you to follow Jim 47:55 and alex from Twitter jim caviezel is at 47:58 James G Richard Alex handle is at an 48:02 ecstatic 48:03 so goodbye for now we look forward to 48:06 joining you again through you have been 48:10 listening to the gold chronicles 48:12 Jim records and Alex sense presented by 48:16 physical gold fun recording can be found 48:19 physical gold 1 dot columns or flash 48:22 vodka 48:23 you can register there for news of 48:25 upcoming interviews with Jim records and 48:28 other world-class

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